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Ray Dickerson wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:00 PM:

" to full o bull: Correction: That would be Capitol Cities. However, given the way they work, Capital may be a better choice of words. "

Ray Dickerson wrote on Jun 13, 2008 5:01 PM:

" to full o bull:

Ontario has great plumbing, to use your metaphor. As far as essential services go, it meets demands and functions rather well as far as small town bureaucracies go. What the city wants to do is provide citizens with luxuries beyond the scope of the term “essential.” In my view, which is probably more conservative than yours, essential services consist of taking care of the streets, providing water and sewer services, parks, police and fire protection and the engineering and planning required of any city. Some would argue that none of these services are essential and they could be better performed by non-public employees but I’m not in that camp. Everything else the city does is in direct competition with the private sector, which includes all kinds of recreation for the folks, transportation and a host of other fringe services like day care, etc.

I find great hypocrisy in that Business wants the citizens to fund those “services” they feel will bring more business to them, and government is glad to oblige and promote because it brings more people and power to government, at the expense of those who stand to benefit the least.

Just what would the City of Ontario do with another 3.5 million dollars per year? Would they simply pay the bureaucrats more? Would they add police officers? Would they build another nine hole golf course? Would they build a new city hall to house the additional staffing? Would they build a new swimming pool? Buy more gizmos for the police? Build another fire station to house the trucks they would buy? Would the citizens feel better about their town if all of the listed items were completed? Or, would there be a demand for one more penny to support the expanded government and to support more expansions of government into the private sector.

The problem with Ontario is not city services. Rather, it is poverty, illegal immigration, too many government services and above all, Salem imposed land use regulations that have so constricted Ontario, that as the eastern most appendage in Oregon, it could well rot and fall off the map.

Perhaps you read the article in yesterday’s Argus about the impact that prisons such as SRCI have on communities. It states that 62 percent of employees at SRCI live in Idaho. Why that is, is because of state imposed land use restrictions. It is also because that employer does not pay taxes to support the local economy as does a real employer like Ore-Ida.( The irony here is that Oregon taxpayer money is used to pay corrections people who live in Idaho, and Idaho cities benefit from the taxes collected, and can build schools and provide many of the services you are campaigning for Ontario.) The article went on to say how SRCI has brought money to town but it has done nothing to fix the plumbing, once again your metaphor. Government does not improve any economy it seems, except around Capital Cities where people line up to feed from the trough of excess tax collections.

Anytime a revenue stream is created for government, government expands to consume that stream, and then complains about things they can’t do because the stream is drying up doing things they shouldn’t be doing anyway.

The city of Ontario cannot tax its way out of poverty. Any tax imposed will proportionately decrease business in Ontario and further compound the problems of poverty. Economics 101. "

full o bull wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:53 AM:

" To Ray,
Why Do you think that a sales tax would kill Ontario? I think Quite the contrary. It has not killed thousands of cities across the united states that do have sales tax. I believe after six months of grumbling about the sales tax, everyone will get adjusted to it and it will be no big deal anymore, and no ones pocketbook will even feel a pinch. But the City of ontario's general fund will finally have the much needed breathing room that it has not had in over seven years. Ontario looks like a poor run down dump because there hasn't been the funds to fix the plumming. So I don't even believe for a second that it will KILL Ontario, in fact I think Ontario will thrive because of it. "

dw wrote on Jun 11, 2008 10:09 AM:

" Dear Ont Vol~
In reading what I initially wrote, I can see where it would appear I was referring to traveling into Idaho to shop, I appreciate your maturity telling me how it apppeared in writing unlike name calling losers. In regards to your stats about the fire dept, I truly 100% know about the dept, I myself am directly related to a fire dept and know how you and other stations work. I know how important it is to have knowledge and ability to do the job (volunteer or paid) they have stepped up to do. Again, what I was simply saying was we have to look at the whole picture, not just one detail. If we are paying for a committee to contract with another committe to pay them to solve issues, we are not getting any further ahead. If we are paying the new city manager this disgusting amount of money, we have some serious issues here and they need to be addressed. People complain about kids on the street, yet some committee is contemplating saving a golf course that does NOT benefit everyone-just those rich enough to play. The swimming pool is being threatened to be shut down....what will the kids do now? The Boys & Girls Club that we are trying to get running- why not put the funds from the golf course into it? If 15 people truly left City of Ontario's employment, where is that money going to? No one has mentioned filling those positions. Do these positions need to be filled? Are we running just as well without them? If so, then put that money where it is needed, hence my point initially of "overpaying" city employees. I will say, as I have drove around Ontario and noticed a work crew patching a hole or painting lines, I have never seen one worker standing around doing nothing. That entire crew was busy, they are TRULY working for their paycheck which I have no issue with them being paid their wage. It is those who sit around forming committees for this reason and looking for someone else to fix our problems is whom I have issues with. "

Ont Vol wrote on Jun 10, 2008 5:14 PM:

" DW
The Ontario FD is primarily made up of Volunteers, with some full time positions, to keep some continuity, and assure the initial engine responds, without a delay while manning a truck.
As far as the Vol staff, IMO we are headed for some lean times, as a large percentage of Vol's are coming to the end of thier careers, and it doesn't appear to be a line of young applicants to take over.
With the all the cities financial problems, I can assure you the FD is not one of them, as you get more value (Service to Cost) with the FD then any other City entity.
In regards to Homer reading into your post, when you said "cross over to neighboring towns", I also took that as over the river. "

dw wrote on Jun 10, 2008 2:30 PM:

" To Homer~
I love how you assume and read into things! I believe I did not mention anything about going into Idaho to shop.....look who is the idiot now- there are two other towns that are IN OREGON and do not have sales tax. Also, when I stated overpaying employees, again YOU IDIOT, I did not say all employees did I? Re-read what I wrote and what was written in other entries then you will see what I was referring to. And here is the icing on the cupcake....I am DEFINITELY NOT A DICK WEED, that would require me to be male and a part of the group you so perfectly belong to. "

Homer wrote on Jun 10, 2008 12:13 PM:

" To dw or would that be dick weed? Ontario isnt Nyssa and the problem isnt overpaying their employees, if that where so why did 15 of them chose to leave in the last year? Another good point go to Idaho and pay 6% or drive 20-30 miles at $5.00 a gallon to save 1% its idiots like you who make this town the joke that it is. "

Ray Dickerson wrote on Jun 5, 2008 7:02 AM:

" At the public forum where the candidates for Oregon’s District 60 were debating, Cliff Bentz was asked by an attendee what his position was on sales taxes. Not an exact quote, but Representative Bentz said a sales tax would kill Ontario. And, with Cliff, I’d agree. "

dw wrote on Jun 4, 2008 1:30 PM:

" I have heard of threats in the past of implementing a sales tax, and each time I just roll my eyes and mutter to myself about it. I agree with you "Wake Up" to a point, in regards to the poor conditions of the streets in Ontario, the emergency services provided, etc. BUT, you need to look at the larger picture here. I just read the article that stated the new city manager was going to earn $95,000 a year. If Ontario has all that money to pay him that ridiculous and extremely over the top amount of money, then a sales tax is not necessary obviously. Cities like Nyssa do not pay their firemen, they are volunteers. Maybe Ontario should look at humbling themselves and stop filling the employees of Ontario's pockets with so much money? Why punish those of us who work (and no, I do not live in low income housing nor a mobile home)for our hourly wage job and try to make ends meet, by slapping a tax on us? Look at the employees of Ontario and their incomes- I say start cutting some fat and humble those who think they are on a pedastal. Needless to say, if Ontario so chooses to start up this ridiculous sales tax, I think they will truly live to regret it. I, along with many, will be more than happy to cross over into neighboring towns and buy food and gas there. Then what will Karen Cammack have accomplished by opening a can of worms aka sales tax? Karen will have made businesses close their doors for good, she will have made it extremely difficult to buy groceries, she will have made this town bitter and the laughing stock of this area. Go ahead Karen and whoever is supporting and pushing her idea- I hope you can sleep at night knowing how you killed our city and our people. "

Wake up wrote on Jun 3, 2008 7:20 PM:

" Norma and Glenna,
Are you two living under the same bridge. Have you driven down North Oregon Street lately and had your teeth rattle by the broken pavement. Have you seen the graffiti on your neighbors fence. Do you count the number of times you hear the fire department responding to a medical problem or fire each day. Do either one of you flush a toilet or turn on a faucet. If there were no policemen employee by this City would the two of you ever walk outside. You two are paying the lowest tax rate in the Treasure Valley, you are receiving some of the best service in the Treasure Valley and you can't do anything but complain. Unbelieveable. Do something positive. Tell the City Council how they can do it better and continue to keep people like you two safe. You two have the easiest job in the community, you can sit inside your nice warm mobile homes, or low income apartment and grip about how others are not doing right by you. "

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